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Inspiration behind the Der Red Max rocket? History?
#1
Question 
Does anyone know where the concept for the Der Red Max came from?  The name is mysterious.  The "der" is German, "red" is English, and "max" is Latin.  it looks like of like a klunky, WWI or WWII era German rocket, but then it really isn't decorated like a military missile.  It obviously was designed to be a low and slow rocket, with a blunted nose cone and non-airfoiled fins.  But why?

Is there a story behind the Der Red Max?
John S.
NAR #96911
TRA #15253
MDRA
Level 1, 2014-Mar-15 -- Aerotech Sumo, H133BS
Level 2, 2014-Jun-21 -- Giant Leap Vertical Assault, J240RL
Level 3, 2016-03-12 -- MAC Performance Radial Flyer, M1101WH, 13,028 feet
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#2
Sounds like a question for YORF.
Member of MDRA, NAR and NARHAMS;
Level-2 certified but mostly fly G and under;
Volunteer compiler of manufacturer's news for ROCKETS Magazine.
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#3
In January 1917 Richthofen received the "Pour le Merite" (informally known as "The Blue Max"), which was the highest military honor in Germany at that time.
The German translation would be "Der Blau Maximal".
After becoming squadron commander of Jasta 11, he took the flamboyant step of having his plane painted red, which led to him being referred to as "Der Rot Maximal", or in English "the red maximum", or shortened to "the red max".
He subsequently flew in red aircraft, although not all of them were entirely red, nor the brilliant scarlet used by modelers.
The rocket's name is a take off from "Der Rot Maximal", mixing English with German -> "Der Red Max".
Greg Young - L3
TRA 00234
NAR 42065
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#4
Verrry interesting...
Member of MDRA, NAR and NARHAMS;
Level-2 certified but mostly fly G and under;
Volunteer compiler of manufacturer's news for ROCKETS Magazine.
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#5
The Red Max in the Crimson Haybaler (from Wikipedia)

An air ace (voiced by Daws Butler) whose name is a combination of the Red Baron and the Blue Max, in a car/plane hybrid that is capable of limited flight, usually just enough to leapfrog over racers or obstacles in its path. The Haybaler has a mounted machine gun which is used sporadically. The machine gun can fire bullets, pepper, and other substances. The Haybaler's transformations from plane to car seems to have significantly weakened its flying ability, and Max often has to bail out when the Haybaler breaks down. The character and name of his vehicle are partially derived from the barnstorming stuntmen of the 1920s.

[Image: The-Crimson-Haybailer-and-the-red-max.gif]
.
NAR #100544

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack." 
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

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#6
Hey, Wacky Racers! Now there's something I haven't seen in awhile.

Thanks, Greg, for the explanation. So it's a Red-Baron-inspired sort of thing, but not directly related to rockets or missiles.
Someone should some up with a Snoopy rocket, and then they can have a mid-air duel. Dick? Smile
John S.
NAR #96911
TRA #15253
MDRA
Level 1, 2014-Mar-15 -- Aerotech Sumo, H133BS
Level 2, 2014-Jun-21 -- Giant Leap Vertical Assault, J240RL
Level 3, 2016-03-12 -- MAC Performance Radial Flyer, M1101WH, 13,028 feet
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#7
Oooh, a Snoopy rocket. That would make a cool goonie design! GREAT idea!
Member of MDRA, NAR and NARHAMS;
Level-2 certified but mostly fly G and under;
Volunteer compiler of manufacturer's news for ROCKETS Magazine.
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#8
(06-29-2015, 11:03 AM)Bat-mite Wrote: Does anyone know where the concept for the Der Red Max came from?  The name is mysterious.  The "der" is German, "red" is English, and "max" is Latin.  it looks like of like a klunky, WWI or WWII era German rocket, but then it really isn't decorated like a military missile.  It obviously was designed to be a low and slow rocket, with a blunted nose cone and non-airfoiled fins.  But why?

Is there a story behind the Der Red Max?

Mid to Late 60's there was a lot of interest in both world wars, since it had been a generation since WWII and two since WWI.  Snoopy and the Red Baron. Movies from "the Great Escape" to "Patton", and of course, "The Blue Max" about a German fighter pilot. Hogan's Heroes. Bikers in gangs often wore German helmets from both wars.
That could explain the influences at the time, but why that motif on that particular design?  Dunno.  I think Mike Dorffler was the designer, but that's just a guess.  There were a few Estes rockets in the period of '71-'80 that were simple rockets that used that general fin design. Goblin, Blue Bird Zero (another with a german military influence in decor), the Vampire all-plastic rocket, Multi-Roc.
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#9
(06-29-2015, 02:40 PM)Greg Young Wrote: In January 1917 Richthofen received the "Pour le Merite" (informally known as "The Blue Max"), which was the highest military honor in Germany at that time.
The German translation would be "Der Blau Maximal".
After becoming squadron commander of Jasta 11, he took the flamboyant step of having his plane painted red, which led to him being referred to as "Der Rot Maximal", or in English "the red maximum", or shortened to "the red max".
He subsequently flew in red aircraft, although not all of them were entirely red, nor the brilliant scarlet used by modelers.
The rocket's name is a take off from "Der Rot Maximal", mixing English with German -> "Der Red Max".

If this were Wikipedia I'd say {{citation needed}}. The Wikipedia article agrees with all the above except that it gives as his nicknames "Der Rote Baron", "Der Rote Kampfflieger", "Le Diable Rouge", "Le Petit Rouge", and "Red Knight" — but no mention of "Red Max". It may be true but I'd be interested in the source.

(06-29-2015, 05:25 PM)Royatl Wrote: That could explain the influences at the time, but why that motif on that particular design?  Dunno.  I think Mike Dorffler was the designer, but that's just a guess.  There were a few Estes rockets in the period of '71-'80 that were simple rockets that used that general fin design. Goblin, Blue Bird Zero (another with a german military influence in decor), the Vampire all-plastic rocket, Multi-Roc.

I thought I'd seen Dorffler's name associated with Der Red Max but this Semroc page says the designer was Wayne Kellner.
Rich Holmes
Camillus, NY
Secretary / newsletter editor
Syracuse Rocket Club

http://richsrockets.wordpress.com
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#10
Mike Dorffler designed the Blue Bird Zero...

I quote his response to a question about the BBZ.
Quote:2. I did the Blue Bird Zero over one weekend. Marketing on Friday wanted a new starter outfit rocket by Monday morning, so that's what I did - fully painted and decored. There's lots of Red Max in the design in case you hadn't seen it. 

I like it too. I have the BBZ packaging artwork framed and hanging in my home office.


I checked all of the posts in "Ask Mike" and couldn't find anything else about the DRM.

According to Daniel Runyon's April 2011 post over on YORF , the DRM was designed by Wayne Kellner.
.
NAR #100544

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack." 
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

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