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Inspiration behind the Der Red Max rocket? History?
#11
(06-29-2015, 09:12 PM)Rich Holmes Wrote:
(06-29-2015, 02:40 PM)Greg Young Wrote: In January 1917 Richthofen received the "Pour le Merite" (informally known as "The Blue Max"), which was the highest military honor in Germany at that time.
The German translation would be "Der Blau Maximal".
After becoming squadron commander of Jasta 11, he took the flamboyant step of having his plane painted red, which led to him being referred to as "Der Rot Maximal", or in English "the red maximum", or shortened to "the red max".
He subsequently flew in red aircraft, although not all of them were entirely red, nor the brilliant scarlet used by modelers.
The rocket's name is a take off from "Der Rot Maximal", mixing English with German -> "Der Red Max".

If this were Wikipedia I'd say {{citation needed}}. The Wikipedia article agrees with all the above except that it gives as his nicknames "Der Rote Baron", "Der Rote Kampfflieger", "Le Diable Rouge", "Le Petit Rouge", and "Red Knight" — but no mention of "Red Max". It may be true but I'd be interested in the source.

(06-29-2015, 05:25 PM)Royatl Wrote: That could explain the influences at the time, but why that motif on that particular design?  Dunno.  I think Mike Dorffler was the designer, but that's just a guess.  There were a few Estes rockets in the period of '71-'80 that were simple rockets that used that general fin design. Goblin, Blue Bird Zero (another with a german military influence in decor), the Vampire all-plastic rocket, Multi-Roc.

I thought I'd seen Dorffler's name associated with Der Red Max but this Semroc page says the designer was Wayne Kellner.

Ok then, if that's what Carl came up with, I'll go with that.

I still wouldn't think there was a *tight* association between anything specific and the names, just a general influence, and Kellner just probably liked the red color rather than blue (By the way, Randy Gilbert (as Original Rockets) briefly marketed a 4" dia.  29mm motor model called Das Blue Max in 1991 (I still have one in the bag).  Same fins, mostly same decals, but the stubbier LOC nose cone).
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#12
Rich - this isn't Wikipedia, so I did not think a citation was necessary.
As to my source, I minored in German in college, and Der Blau Maximal-> Der Rot Maximal as described was one area we focused on during those studies.
Yes, he was known as the red baron by the Allies. The question was not what he was known as by Allied aviators, but where the "Der Red Max" name on the rocket MAY have come from, which is what I addressed.
Greg Young - L3
TRA 00234
NAR 42065
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#13
(07-01-2015, 04:29 PM)Greg Young Wrote: Rich - this isn't Wikipedia, so I did not think a citation was necessary.
As to my source, I minored in German in college, and Der Blau Maximal-> Der Rot Maximal as described was one area we focused on during those studies.
Yes, he was known as the red baron by the Allies. The question was not what he was known as by Allied aviators, but where the "Der Red Max" name on the rocket MAY have come from, which is what I addressed.

OK, thanks... Hazy history is still kind of hazy, but we've got something (or things) to go on...
Rich Holmes
Camillus, NY
Secretary / newsletter editor
Syracuse Rocket Club

http://richsrockets.wordpress.com
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#14
This thread has been very interesting. I thought the Blue Max award was somewhat the inspiration, but with a nod toward "The Bloody Red Baron" of Snoopy and the Royal Guardsman fame.

Another question I have is why this rocket has captured the attention and interest of rocketeers?

I have seen a whole variety of sizes of this rocket, almost all of them blood red, and now, I'm tempted to try one, MPR or LPR.
Can anyone recommend a source for a kit? What do they fly on?
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#15
(06-29-2015, 11:03 AM)Bat-mite Wrote: Does anyone know where the concept for the Der Red Max came from?  The name is mysterious.  The "der" is German, "red" is English, and "max" is Latin.  it looks like of like a klunky, WWI or WWII era German rocket, but then it really isn't decorated like a military missile.  It obviously was designed to be a low and slow rocket, with a blunted nose cone and non-airfoiled fins.  But why?

Is there a story behind the Der Red Max?

It is a bit whimsical.  I'm more inclined to favor more serious models like the "Der V-3" ...    Rolleyes
Lee
NAR 55948, L2
In Build: Mars Snooper
Next: upscale Sky Hook (Panavia kitbash)
In Finishing:  Estes Honest John, Red Nova, Super Cobra
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#16
Kirk G,

The MDRM is a low and slow rocket with a long 29mm MMT and no forward motor block.  So you can fly it to about 600' on a G80, then stick an H in it and get your level 1 very easily.  It builds easily with wood glue.  It is a perfect rocket for transitioning from MPR into HPR.  But mostly I think people like it just because it is quirky.  The decals are silly; the ellipsoidal NC and thick, block fins are everything you normally want to avoid in a rocket.  It is an anomaly for sure.

The Estes PSII MDRM is about $50 at HobbyLinc.  You may find it elsewhere cheaper from time to time.  In fact, I think someone on the Rocketry Forum is selling one for best offer, still in the box.

Another fun thing about them is that StickerShock23 makes several sets of vinyl decals for MDRMs.  If you don't like the waterslide decals that come with it, you can get the standard set at Sticker Shock.  But Mark also has like ten other "takes" on the MDRM, like "Der Blue Max," "Der Pink Max," one that has stormtroopers from Star Wars, Hello Kitty, pirates, and other fun sets.

At Red Glare, we always have an MDRM drag race, with about fifteen of them getting launched at once.  Always a great photo op and fun moment.  Of course, you have to have one to participate.   Wink
John S.
NAR #96911
TRA #15253
MDRA
Level 1, 2014-Mar-15 -- Aerotech Sumo, H133BS
Level 2, 2014-Jun-21 -- Giant Leap Vertical Assault, J240RL
Level 3, 2016-03-12 -- MAC Performance Radial Flyer, M1101WH, 13,028 feet
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#17
Sounds like the Mega Der Red Max is a level higher than I would want to go right now. (Although I know many in my club that would urge me to go for it...they are enablers who encourage others to join in their "addiction". LOL)

What's the next smaller one that fits into either LPR or MPR (motors C, D or E)?
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#18
Estes sells a smaller Der Red Max kit I believe..
.
Greg Young - L3
TRA 00234
NAR 42065
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#19
Plus it's real easy to bodge a "Der Kinder Max" if you have a Quark laying around
Phill Ash
Secretary - SouthEastern Virginia Rocketry Association (SEVRA)
2015 Tot Impulse: 1398.8 Ns (L2, 45 Flights, 57 Motors)
2016 Tot Impulse: 190.3 Ns (L2, 14 Flights, 16 Motors)




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#20
(07-30-2015, 07:43 AM)Greg Young Wrote: Estes sells a smaller Der Red Max kit I believe..
.

The "Der Red Max" (minus the "Mega") has an 18mm motor mount and sells for about $12. http://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/der_red_max.htm
John S.
NAR #96911
TRA #15253
MDRA
Level 1, 2014-Mar-15 -- Aerotech Sumo, H133BS
Level 2, 2014-Jun-21 -- Giant Leap Vertical Assault, J240RL
Level 3, 2016-03-12 -- MAC Performance Radial Flyer, M1101WH, 13,028 feet
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