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Meaner Machine
Is this forum dead? Most of the sub forums haven't had any activity since last year. Figured I'd post something and see what happens. I just completed this one, my scratch built Meaner Machine. 2.56" LOC tubing, 9ft tall, 29mm motor mount. I hope to fly it this coming Saturday at the LUNAR Snow Ranch launch.

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"I really hate bugs."

OL J R Smile
Speaking of dead There was a recent thread on TRF where people were speculating about what happened to you ol JR.
(03-30-2017, 11:15 PM)luke strawwalker Wrote: Nice...

OL J R Smile

Hey! You're still alive!
"I really hate bugs."
Been alive and well and on YORF every day, just like always... there and the other new forums that sprang up after the last time the Terribly Run Forum "screwed the pooch" for the fiftieth time... I've been trying to support them but unfortunately "Rocketry Spot" seemed to go DOA months ago and this place is on total life support.  Still check in every other day or so.  Enjoying Bernie's new "Sagitta Cantina" and even have my own little section over there, where I still post my "Study Summaries" related to actual space hardware and proposals by NASA and its contractors and even foreign space programs.  Check it out.  See what it's like to be able to have a "big boy" discussion about things in a civilized way without having some idgits breathing down your neck with the "8 year old's birthday party" spiel...

Back around mid-January of last year or year before last, I was reading the latest batch of nonsense on the Terribly Run Forum.  As usual, folks were TRYING to have a decent, mature discussion, and as usual, a couple of COMPLETE CRYBABY WHINERS were running around playing "forum pope" and declaring the topic off limits, certain replies they considered "offensive" because they happened to disagree with it, and they called every jack-booted thug mediator on that board, including a couple of guys that I THOUGHT were better than that, until one was suddenly given a moderator button to push and the other decided to go all "activist" and start slapping wrists of anybody who DARED disagree with one of the biggest crybaby whiner infants to haunt ALL the forums... So, I finally just said, "enough of this sh!t" and deleted TRF from my favorites list on my browser and didn't go back for months... the ONLY reason I went back then was because someone pinged me on YORF and said someone over there they knew had PM'd me some questions about a project they were working on and would I please take a look, which I was more than happy to do. 

I always tried to do my best to help folks out over there, even on the infamous "which glue and paint is best" type threads which have been done a thousand times... even in the face of a few guys who were (and I'm probably guilty of it too myself) just telling the OP "go do a search".  IIRC I said in a few threads like that "Google it" but then in the same post or a subsequent one, gave the information anyway.  I did a LOT of build threads and techniques threads and stuff over there over the years, including a lot of threads detailing step-by-step the Dr. Zooch builds I did when I was doing beta builds of his kits, both as "Free advertising" for him and as a "tutorial" or "online instructions" for folks who purchased his kits.  Course, sometimes I had to "sit on some stuff" for awhile before I could post it, because I didn't want to put anything out there before Wes gave me the OK to do so, which sometimes took a little while until he was actually ready to announce and subsequently release the kit... but anyway, I always tried to contribute some good quality information that people could use about a variety of subjects. 

And, yeah, I'm an opinionated SOB and hey, we're all entitled to an opinion and free to disagree, right??  This IS America, after all... BUT when you have a couple whiny crybabies that make it their life's work to go around LOOKING for something to be offended by, who want to spout whatever their opinion is but wanting ANYBODY DARING to disagree with them slapped down, and who keep the forum's moderators on "speed dial" and email them "en mass" anytime ANYTHING doesn't suit them, and you couple that with a moderator staff that suddenly decides that they have to cater to such whiner's every whim, well, at some point, enough is enough. 

Not like it hadn't happened before... I was on TRF since the early 2000's (2001 or 2002 IIRC), LONG before the "meltdown" that basically destroyed TRF and saw most of its membership migrate over to YORF for MONTHS until the "new" TRF was up and running (for those that remember that).  I was also on YORF for all that time, and on other forums sadly no longer with us, like Darrell Mobley's "Rocketry Planet" and others like "Newton's Third", among others.  It wasn't the FIRST time I saw that kind of garbage on TRF, and not the first time I saw members who'd been on TRF for a LONG time say, "Ya know, F*** it, I've had enough of this crap" and walk away.  I didn't ever see myself doing that, but after watching that sort of thing happen between once every 6 months to about once a year or so (at the longest) when there would erupt some big kerfluffle and certain people would be pompous asses, and others would defend them to the death, and then the moderators would step in and usually TOTALLY overreact and let some of their "pets" get away with all kinds of crap while slapping other people down for even *RESPECTFULLY* disagreeing, (let alone "dishing them back their own sanctimonious medicine!" which I dared to do once or twice, and nearly got kicked off because of it, long, long ago).  I'd seen at LEAST a dozen cycles of pretty much civil discourse leading to disagreement to overmoderation because *CERTAIN* people got their panties in a wad, to moderator slap-downs and jack-booted thug moderation tactics to "skeer everybody back in line" type crap and usually valuable contributors getting a belly full and leaving, then things finally settling down for a long while until ANOTHER new cycle would begin...

Then to top it off, the "new owners" over there and their asshat nonsense had basically soured me on the Terribly Run Forum because of the way they were running the place, as a "cash cow" and they'd swear UP AND DOWN they'd never do this or that, and lo and behold in the next 'forum upgrade' voila there it'd be-- they'd do EXACTLY what they SWORE they wouldn't do... (like paid memberships to torpedo MOST of their computer-choking advertising blitz they DROWNED the forum in...)  Their treating valuable contributors like Shrox (and many others, including Squirrel Works) as if they were beneath reproach and banning some of them... Just the whole place started leaving a worse and worse taste in my mouth...

Then I got a PM one day from a moderator that I *thought* was a pretty level-headed and equitable fellow... I'd already been disappointed in a recent moderator addition who was VERY cool when he was just a member but who turned into "Hitler's nephew" when he got a moderator's button-- he had a hammer and by damn he intended to use it... like using a sledge hammer to kill flies... VERY stupid and disappointing behavior...  Anyway, I got a "finger wagging" PM from this other moderator because I dared say something that upset one of the crybabies and I just snapped and found myself saying, LITERALLY, "Oh, F**K THIS D@MN PLACE!!! I'm THROUGH with it!" 

Like I said, only time I've been back on the Terribly Run Forum is when a question was posed to me or occasionally following a link to the latest stupidity going on over there, courtesy (usually) of Ted Macklin, among a few others reporting on various discussions and nonsense. 

It was only a couple months after I "pulled the plug" on TRF that suddenly this forum and "Rocketry Spot" popped up and some folks migrated over, also sick and tired of the usual "five-n-dime" nonsense on TRF... even YORF got a few new members who simply had a belly full of TRF and said, "I'll lurk there maybe once a week or so, but that's it... just don't like what's going on over there" and other such things.  I HAD hoped that this forum and RS would flourish and take a little of the wind out of TRF's sails-- let them know their jackbooted thug enforcement of the "8 year old's birthday party" mentality just wasn't going to cut it among mature, thinking rocketeers, but I guess that was too much to hope for.... after a good start, within a few weeks/couple of months, seems MOST of the folks discontent with the Terribly Run Forum just slinked back over there, presumably so they'd have the biggest audience possible... if that floats their boat, then whatever-- good on them...   I figured the more valuable participants would migrate elsewhere and leave TRF to the crybabies and whiners and the goofballs that post all sorts of garbage threads that create a huge amount of NOISE, like "word association threads" and "how many newtons have you burned threads" other complete nonsense that just made the signal/noise ratio over on TRF simply terrible... I'd find myself wading through about THREE TO FIVE PAGES of "new posts" every day, and maybe reading a half-dozen threads where anything of SUBSTANCE was being discussed...

SO, THAT is why I haven't been on TRF and really have had NO desire to return... not so long as it's the "SSDD" crap that's been going on over there forever and a day for the past 15 years...  I'd rather have a "big boy" discussion where people are free to voice their opinion, even in a rather small group, rather than have to sugar-coat everything or bite their tongue lest they "offend" a couple of crybabies LOOKING to be offended and some overzealous moderators looking to "defend" them, and allow a certain crybaby or two to go play "forum pope" and swagger around saying "this thread is getting off topic" or "this subject isn't allowed to be discussed on this forum" and other such UTTER GARBAGE because *THEY* don't like it...

Later!  OL J R Smile
LOL... Okay, I admit curiosity got the better of me and I just HAD to go check out that thread on the Terribly Run Forum... I have to say I was rather amused....

First off, as USUAL, bradycros is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG. I was not 'booted off' TRF, I left quite voluntarily. Yes, "BOY George" gASSaway and I exchanged some words, but it was a "difference of opinion" and of course he couldn't take it, and found whatever I said at the time to be "utterly offensive" and went on some rampage PM'ing ALL the moderators and making a huge ado about NOTHING... not MAN ENOUGH to disagree and voice a dissenting opinion and leave it at that. No, he had to go hiding behind someone else's SKIRT, just like he's done TIME AND TIME AGAIN on other forums, INCLUDING YORF, which *HE* "placed on probation" for one year because the SOLE MODERATOR over there doesn't have time to pander to his every fit and whim, UNLIKE the Terribly Run Forum that had a WHOLE BOATLOAD of moderators with itchy trigger fingers and nothing better to do than run around changing his diapers... And of course, I see ol' "BOY George" checked in with his usual "he didn't like the forum rules" crap that he ALWAYS hides behind and uses as his own personal excuse to run around acting all high and mighty like some kind of "forum pope" with the right to declare what topics CAN and CANNOT be discussed, and of course being OFFENDED by ANYTHING that *HE* personally does not like. Sorry, but I can't STAND people like that... they are ABSOLUTELY AND UTTERLY SICKENING. I've said it before and I'll say it again-- I've admired George's chops in rocketry-- the stuff he's done and can do is frankly amazing, from his RC shuttles and sun-sensing rockets, etc. BUT, he puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us-- he is NOT the "sole arbiter" of what is ALLOWED to be discussed or NOT ALLOWED; not unless he BOUGHT TRF and turned it into his own personal playground... At any rate, he has done the SAME GARBAGE he pulled on TRF on YORF and elsewhere; he's CERTAINLY not without reproach (and I've screencapped one of his tirades where he was doing the EXACT SAME STUFF he accuses me *AND others* of doing "in violation of forum rules", before it was subsequently pulled by the mods). SO, he's not the blameless little angel he likes to pretend he is.

I left TRF on my own because, like I said, I got sick of the same old same old-- back and forth, everything cool for awhile, then something stirring things up a bit, and BOOM! Here'd come the usual moderators charging in like wild bulls stomping on anybody that a certain few crybabies whined to them about... That coupled with the new owners and their new policies.

Mushtang and a few others mentioned the "AdBlocker" thing. I have to credit him with walking me through it. Yeah, I was opposed to it at first because I didn't understand how it worked... I'm not any expert on computers by ANY stretch and admit that. Thanks to his help and suggestions and encouragement I finally DID install Adblock software and it made TRF go from practically locking up my machine to actually usable. I WAS just about ready to dump TRF over the HUGE amount of "adchoices" crap that was gumming up my machine in trying to read TRF, but thanks to Adblock that overcame that, but OTHER issues still remained.

I remember some folk suggesting over and over again that they should do "paid memberships" to alleviate the ads for paying members. I also remember QUITE VIVIDLY the new owners saying they wouldn't even consider doing that, but lo and behold, within a few months they did EXACTLY THAT, and were basically dunning EVERYBODY to become "paying members". I simply DID NOT and REFUSE to support people who buy something in order to CREATE a problem for other people (like choking the forum with ads) who then want to SELL you the solution... IMHO that's just EXTORTION. I REFUSE to support that kind of behavior, and after the "new owners" declared their "ownership" of ANYTHING posted on their precious forum, and basically stomped on any valuable contributors who disagreed, like Shrox and Squirrel Works who immediately spring to mind, I was ready to leave myself. The whole kerfluffle with Boy George and a certain moderator who HAD always been pretty fair and even-keeled up to that point issuing me one of their stupid "demerits" was just the last straw of something that had been building up and souring me on the Terribly Run Forum for a while at that point.

SO, I left. I'm glad I left. I was just sick and tired of having to walk around on eggshells all the time because of a few whiny crybabies like BOY George gASSbagg and a couple of others who got butt-hurt anytime ANYBODY disagreed with them on ANYTHING, and the moderators protecting them no matter HOW STUPID they were acting. I got sick and tired of being issued "warnings" or "demerits" like some eighth grader by some nut jobs with NOTHING better to do but make trouble for even daring to disagree with one of the crybabies who got butt-hurt over something that was said, even if it WASN'T directed at them... I got sick and tired of these same crybabies swaggering around and sticking their big noses into discussions that were being carried on ENTIRELY politely and by mutual consent WITHOUT THEM, simply because *THEY ALONE* didn't think such topics should be allowed to be discussed, or disagreed with the points being made or the subject matter itself, holding EVERYBODY'S opinion hostage TO THEIR OWN like some sort of intellectual terrorists, and having the moderators back them up REGARDLESS of what other people involved had to say... I got sick and tired of the "eight year old's birthday party" mentality that simply FORBADE ANY discussion of ANYTHING remotely "controversial" or of any real gravitas or importance... but which supported an UNENDING STREAM of garbage like "word association threads" and "how many newtons have you burned so far" threads that simply created a lot of traffic and posts for their creators to inflate their post counts...

Take all that together, and it made TRF into the "TERRIBLY RUN FORUM" IMHO. I got sick and tired of it, so I left. I wasn't the only one by a longshot. I see a LOT of the other "old timers" have left there as well. I also see a lot of the same "usual suspects" that like to toss bombs and giggle or do other stuff (like bradycros) still haunting the place, as well as BOY George, safe in his heavily moderated protection... So be it. TRF may be the "biggest forum out there" and all that, but that doesn't mean it's GOOD. Rocketry Center and Rocketry Spot both sprang up within a couple weeks or so of each other, BOTH as a result of ANOTHER kerfluffle that drove a wave of "old timers" to leave TRF (or at least become unhappy enough with it to do something about it and start their own forums). I HAD hoped that these "alternatives" would take off and at least stand on their own ground; TRF IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be the "be all, end all" of rocketry forums... the more "alternatives" there are, the better, IMHO. The discussion should NOT be held hostage to a handful of whiners and crybabies and their moderator protectors enforcing some infantile "8 year old's birthday party" mentality and disallowing ANY discussion that *anyone* finds "offensive" for any reason, or that might be "controversial" (like the well-documented HPR mishaps that caused severe injury or death and were subject to legal proceedings) or other such relevant and legitimate topics. Sadly, it seems that MOST people just want the BIGGEST AUDIENCE POSSIBLE for whatever their saying or doing, and don't care if that happens to be in a place where such bad practices are a matter of policy. Meh, if that's what floats their boat, so be it-- more power to them, and they deserve what they get.

Of course, I see in the same breath people saying stuff about having lots of new people but not a lot of good content or lots of the old timers leaving or that TRF and the forums are dwindling and may eventually die. Meh, times change-- maybe FB and other other "social media" sites will one day drive the last nail in the coffin of "forums" like TRF, YORF, Sagitta Cantina, Rocketry Center, etc... just like the old newsgroups are pretty much dead and gone into history... BUT, I STRONGLY doubt that TRF will be the "last forum standing" when that day arrives... and if it is, it's because people valued the biggest audience possible and vapid content of little value over freedom to discuss things respectfully and honestly and actually valuable content, even with a smaller audience.
Times change... Sadly TRF has remained the same, from what I've seen, which is NOT a good thing IMHO...

For those that like it-- enjoy. For those who have more mature tastes, the "8 year old's birthday party" got REAL old, so we left.

Later! OL J R Smile
(03-28-2017, 09:56 AM)Qquake2k Wrote: Meaner Machine's first flight on a G64 White Lightning. This was at the LUNAR Snow Ranch launch on Saturday.

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"I really hate bugs."

DAAAMMM that's something to say then in the middle of a pity party rant! reads like its from a 12 year old!
(04-03-2017, 03:36 PM)tomsteve Wrote: COMPLETE CRYBABY WHINERS

DAAAMMM that's something to say then in the middle of a pity party rant! reads like its from a 12 year old!


You weren't there so you don't know.  But go on and shoot your mouth off anyway. 

Later!  OL J R Smile
(04-03-2017, 09:58 AM)Qquake2k Wrote:
(03-28-2017, 09:56 AM)Qquake2k Wrote: Meaner Machine's first flight on a G64 White Lightning. This was at the LUNAR Snow Ranch launch on Saturday.

Great pictures!  And a nice job on your upscale.  I've had three tubes and a nose cone (2.6") for a big Mean Machine in the rafters of my shop for 15-20 years.  I ought to get another tube and follow your lead.  I know you took a hiatus from rockets for awhile.  Were your reloads pretty old?  I've got some G64 and others that go back to the 90s, but have been stored cool and dry I'm my basement.  I'm assuming they should be fine.
NAR 55948, L2
In Build: Mars Snooper
Next: upscale Sky Hook (Panavia kitbash)
In Finishing:  Estes Honest John, Red Nova, Super Cobra

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